captioned by the national captioning institute ---www.ncicap.org--- [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> this week on q & a. our guest is frank, the former press aide to robert kennedy and jorge mcgoverns presidential bid. currently vice president of the firm, hill and noten. >> frank on saturday july 25th after walter cronkite died you wrote a story that we never heard before. what was it? >> senator mcgovern has just been nominated in miami and we had to pick a vice presidentle candidate and my choice was

walter cronkite. anchor for everybody. trusted man in america. and i was voted down unanimously. everybody said, don't be silly. he'll never accept. we'll look bad when he turns it down so. let's go to a more mainstream politician, which we did. >> why did you think walter cronkite would even take the job? >> well i knew he was very much apposed to the vietnam war because about six months before that, he had come back from vietnam and immediately called me and asked to see senator robert kennedy, and two of them met. i with us there and he began by saying senator you have to run for president because this wore has got to end and went on to say how unwinning it was. said we would win a village in the daytime and have to give it

back at the night. vietnamese in the south may not like the north, but they like us less. i knew and kennedy said to him, well then i'll run for president if you run for the senate in new york and cronkite laughed and said i can't. we're closing the first place, i don't live in new york. i live in connecticut and i'm not a democrat. i'm an independent but i knew he had those feelings about the war so, i thought, well maybe he might accept but he would take it seriously i thought. he certainly could out run and out vote anybody else i could think of. >> that was 1968? >> no. 1972. >> where was that meeting held? >> with kennedy? >> mr. cronkite and senator kennedy. on capitol hill? what was your job?

>> i was kennedy's press secretary. >> how had you come to know him in the first place? >> he called me up one day when i was officially still in the peace corporation and i was director in peru and then regional director for latin america. he called me up when he had just been elected going to latin america was his first, sort of trip. because he knew i'd been there friends told me i lived in peru for two years and he wanted to check the peru schedule the state department had given him with me and it was a terrible schedule. called a visit to the american school in the morning and lunch with the american, peru chamber of commerce lunch and visit to some united states aid projects in the afternoon and din at the embassy. i said senator why are you going to do all that? you can do it all here. he laughed and said i know.

that's why i wanted to talk to you. so i gave him an alternate schedule and then we talked to him and he was on his way to peru. i happen to be in panama when his airplane stopped there for refueling. never known him before. >> first time you ever talked? >> yeah. >> it's hard you ask questions for people around during the time this all happened and those that never heard any of this and i might have miss led folks but in 1972 you were in senator mcgovern's office? >> well i had been in senator kennedy's press secretary's office for 10-years and when he was killed i was a journalist for a while and senator mcgovern asked me to join three years later in 1971 and essentially gary heart and i ran that campaign. let's step back again. how did you get back in the

peace core? >> i was a lawyer in california, active in politics in california. ran for the legislature when i was a young man. very active in politics and in the campaign of president kennedy's in california. and when he won, i just thought being lawyer for some movie people was not how i wanted to spend my life so i wrote to friends of mine who were in washington, saying, here i am. use me. somehow. and i came back here eventually did some interviews and talked to an old friend at the defense department and i wound up talking to going over to the peace core because an old friend of mine named franklin williams that had been deputy attorney

general was sergeant shiver's man for africa in the peace corporation and he said you have to come here and so i was energy chantd with them and thought it was a terrific idea. it was just getting started. i spoke spanish so they said, well, pick a country. so i said all right. i'll do peru and they said that's fine. you have to talk to mr. shiver when he gets back but we worked that out. >> so when did you first meet walter cronkite? >> i suppose when i was senator kennedy's press secretary i guess this the normal course of being press secretary i probably talked to him a few times about a story or something that had happened, thing where is fairly relaxed those days you could talk to almost anybody. >> and of all the people you've been around who were you closest

to personally? >> um... i'd say maybe robert kennedy or jorge mcgovern? >> why were you interested in working in the george mcgovern campaign? >> i come to know him working with senator kennedy and i knew of his real passion about the war in vietnam which i shared. and he seemed to me, as a 1972 campaign developed, almost the only candidate that was truly against that war and then he called me up and wanted to know if i wanted to join his campaign and i said, yes i did. >> got some audio tape. it's kind of long - it's over three minutes - of lyndon johnson conversation from the oval office with bobby kennedy at the time - was attorney general - this is in the - may of 1964. >> must have been just ending his term as attorney general.

through new explain what's with going in 1964? >> there was some time, so some talk he might be vice president candidate. lyndon johnson didn't have a vice president. if the president succeeded or a vice president succeeded on the death of a president, he served the rest of the term but without a vice president. that was johnson's situation but it was also clear he and robert kennedy were not friends at all politically. and johnson made an announcement at one point that nobody serving in his cabinet could be on the ticket with him as vice president and robert kennedy said he was sorry to have taken all the others over the side with him, and then he later decided he was going to run for the senate in new york. and i think he left the department of justice probably may or june of 1964.

>> so in 1964, how hot was the vietnam war? >> it was rolling right along. oh, yeah. we were very closely aligned i thought with very dubious leaders of the country in saigon. didn't seem popular at all. in 1964, it was a serious war. and we didn't seem to be gaining very much. >> let's listen to this tape of bobby kennedy and lyndon johnson about 3 1/2 minutes. >> bob about five six days ago had a talk with me and asked me to come over and i went through what i thought - i think there's a lot of and i had this same feeling that you know with president kennedy, i think there's a lot of people around such as douglas dylan and others that whether they are involved

in making decisions or not, they presently based on experience and judgement have good ideas in some matters and think that's advantage of dealing with you know the problem with the missile crisis and other difficulties over the period of the last three years and i think like make the suggestion to utilize some of those brains and talent to the maximum is helpful and again, having watched it a little bit apart over the last three years, i think that to have those people involved and make sure that there are a full discussion about some of these things. i again being quite frank about it, i based on my two meetings at the national security council meeting, i thought there was too much emphasis really on the

military aspects of it. that in - i would think that war will never be won militarily. that where it's going to be won really is a political war. the best talent of course is over the pentagon because you get bob macknamera but doing what needs to be done in that country and whether or not it's setting up organization for each and every county and what steps have to be taken, maybe dropping the bomb some place or sending more planes there. the people there are not interested which you point out frequently and i'm not sure they are being con see trait on that sufficiently. i think that a real major effort in the political field as made in the military field, because the military action obviously

will have to be taken but unless the political action is taken concurrently in my judgement i don't think it can be successful. >> i think that's a good thinking and that's not any different from the way i have felt about it. what we spent the whole afternoon yesterday with lyndon. i assume you saw his column this morning? >> yes, i did. >> bob and bun diand different ones. the - agree with you on dylan and the council too. the problem there is very much what you referred on the first days i was in here, that you don't get to too much on the president is president and way of frankness and real adventure and imagination and people are somewhat hesitant to give the ideas so i've been trying

stimulate and encourage political thinking, and tried to insight in them, some kind of adventure and some diplomatic adventure and some political programs. >> this is about as close as you can get to him in and human beings inside administration. l b. j. knew he pushed the button and tapes were running. i assume bobby kennedy did not know but what did you think there as you will listen? >> i thought i heard an evolving position of senator kennedy's after all, he's been certainly a strong supporter of president kennedy and president kennedy a strong supporter of the war. but he was moving a way. clearly and thinking that there were other ways to achieve whatever we wanted and vietnam and the bombing and the straight

wartime military tactic where is not working and were not going to do the job. >> from your oaks experience when did senator kennedy become very anti-war? >> well, i with that would say probably by 1966? 1967, maybe. but he was always moving that way. if it came down to yes or no. i think it would come down know very soon after the conversation with president johnson who was saying, we need to do political things and nonmilitary things but clearly his heart was not in that. they never did. >> well put bob in perspective. he was appointed defense secretary by john kennedy the president and what was bobby kennedy's relationship with him. we learn later that robert machina me rapidn't think we

could win the war but we went on any way. >> kennedy and the senator were quite close really. talked a lot. i think maybe as bob evolved k dis opinion was changing asmc m asmcnamera said in the documentary the fog of war, he clearly regretted having staying with the war in a purity military posture as long as he did and i think ken day came to agree with that. >> what's your reaction that people do not tell him to his face what he should hear? >> i thought that was a remarkable insight. maybe every president i think maybe feels that but doesn't do much about it. i know some people, jorge ready i think particular one of

johnson's press secretaries said the problem with the johnson administration is there's nobody in the white house that will say, mr. president, that's the dumbest idea i ever heard of. you can't do that. whatever it is. and the presidents i think are in a bubble inside the white house where no one will dare say, your wrong mr. president. i think you should take a different position or change it to a different policy. johnson was beginning to think like thought guess. >> how did you personally relate to senator kennedy? he was i figure about 38 when talking to lyndon johnson and lyndon johnson was about 5.25%. big difference. >> kennedy and i were almost the same age. when i was appointed press secretary, the leading political writer for the "new york times,"

johnny apple said, senator kennedy has found a play mate his own age. >> did you ever talk back to him or up to him? >> well, we were fairly close. we spent a lot of time together in which it was the two of us particularly traveling. >> 3 1/2 year? >> three. >> three years. what changed your mind on the war? or were you ever in favor of the war? >> i was really never in favor of it. what changed my mind was observing not just in vietnam but elsewhere particularly in a skirmish in the dominican republic that the government was actually misleading the public about the war. i thought well if they're doing that in south america maybe they're doing it in southeast asia. i was against the war from i guess 1964 on when i first became aware of what was going on. i was overseas with the peace

corporation from peru to 1961 pse&g 1965. >> how did you w work in the campaign and what were the circumstances when that decision was made around? >> early in 1968 he decided he was going to run. i think the result of the primary election in the new hampshire where president johnson narrowly defeated senator gene maccarthy, i think that persuaded robert kennedy the democratic party was hopelessly split and good of the party no longer required him to go along so he decided to run in march of 68. pretty late. presidential campaigns now began 8 or nine years before the

election. this was early. >> the date i have he announced actually march 16th. >> day before st. patrick's day when he went up to new york and marched the parade. >> but just two weeks earlier than that, walter cronkite made a statement on vietnam on his news cast. that would be february 27th, 1968 and it was longer than 30 seconds but let's listen to a little of that. >> sure. >> seems now more certain than ever the bloody experience of vietnam will end in a stalemate. it will end in real give and take negotiations orderableest canlation and for every mean west have to escalate the enemy can match us and that implys to innovation of the north, use of nuclear weapons attend mere commitment of 300,000 more americans to the battle. with eachest canlation the

worldcoms closer to the brink of cosmic disaster. >> we went on to say we're closer to victory to believe the optimist in the past and so on. but my question is, when did he meet with senator kennedy? was it between that moment and moment he announceed? >> no. i think it was before that. >> before he went to vietnam? >> i think he had another trip to vietnam. think he'd been there before. >> when you were sitting there listening to him suggest to senator kennedy, he had to run for president to stop the war. what was going through your mind? >> well i welcomed him as an ally a lot of people on the senator's staff wanted him to run and some did not. here, i thought was a pretty important fellow in america saying yeah, you should run. may have helped him make-up his mind. >> in a bigger wider discussion what about an anchorman for a

major network getting involved in politics and the public didn't know it? >> didn't happen often if at all. it's one reason i favored walter cronkite to be the vice presidential for senator mcgovern. as i turns out as i wrote in the "washington post" a year or two ago senator walter cronkite told senator mcgovern if he would have asked he would have accepted so the ticket would have been a different election i think. >> you wrote in this column after walter cronkite died you must announce your intention to run against him to show people there's a way out of this terrible war. kennedy listened and asked cronkite his opinion of the battlefield he'd seen. the war can't be won he said. what we gain in the battlefields

and in body count during daytime we lose to the villagers at night. why did you wait until he died to write that? >> well, maybe over extended sense of what would be the ethical thing to do. if he had not talked about it, i wasn't quite sure it would be appropriate for me to do so. >> is there more to the story is that? how long was the meeting they had? >> i pretty well described it. didn't take long. talked about new york politics and vietnam. he would ask walter cronkite what hand here and what did you think of this and that and cronkite was candidate or candid with his assessment. essentially that the war can't be won. if it can't be won, why pursue it? he didn't think we'd lose but

not able to accomplish our objective. >> did you see what larry wrote about this on the university of virginia? >> about what i wrote? no. >> he said decades later, everyone knows cronkite was a democrat. after he graduated he made no secret of his party and affiliation but, cbs went to great pains to present him as nonpartisan. americans accepted this was true. now we learn that cronkite was prepared to run for vice president on the 1972 democratic et if he'd been asked, but it is the 1967 one that stuns. cronkite became a willing activist choosing a personal favorite for president and directly attempting to induce a prominent position for white

house. are we to assume that had no effect on his report sng >> i don't know. i have to think about that. i don't think it had an effect on his reporting. i think cronkite was careful to keep his personal feelings about the his reporting. although the clip we saw but that was not part of a news broadcast. >> when you remember lyndon johnson pulling out and not running for president that year and quotes that came out ofl b. j. saying now that walter cronkite we've lost america. did that have much impact on it, you think? >> i think what president johnson said was if i lose cronkite i lose america. not sure he was convinced to lose it. of course he had. no. i don't think it had that much effect. i think there was, i mean the

fight over vietnam in america was what very widespread. i don't think the opinion of even walter con kite would have turned it one way or the other. >> this next clip you've seen many times and has been talked about many times but i guess for either nostalgia reasons or the younger folks that haven't seen it, the it's the clip from you're a announcement that robert kennedy was dead. before we show it give us circumstances where and when was this? >> it was in los angeles. 1968, june 6th the california primary. a key primary. - which he had won. that night and in the hotel on his way to another press-conference, robert kennedy was shot. and spent about 36 hours in the

hospital and never recovered from the gunshot wound to the head and diedjust after the california primary in june 1968. >> were you next to him when he was shot? >> no i was ten, fifteen yards behind. as we left the platform he was on to go to the next meeting, normally i would have been at his side, i was the only security he had besides bill barry a former fbi guy sort of a security man for him and we both stayed behind to help him down from the platform. kennedy helped jump maybe two or three feet down and what some of us knew but not the public yet was she was pregnant a couple of months. three or four months think. so we stayed behind and helped

her down and then turned to catch up with senator kennedy and that's when we heard the shots. in the kitchen of the ambassador hotel. in los angeles. >> and that - it was located on wilshire boulevard? >> that's right. >> his brother had been killed and what was your sense in that time about security? how tight was the security around him when he was running? >> we had no security at all. provided our own. me and bill barry and we would stand beside him and try to keep the crowd as way. >> in your head were you worried, back then today theres so much security even lesser members the congress have people with them. >> never thought about that really v. little. police protection of course when he drove around the city although not in los angeles because the mayor was very much antikennedy. >> he'd been himself after

candidate for president earlier. not taken very seriously. >> and where was he specifically and how did he find him at that point? >> sir hand was loitering in the kitchen and - normally, we would have walked through the public parts of the hotel. through the lobbies to this other meeting room in the hotel where the press was waiting. or as we said now the media. and - but he was very tired. senator kennedy was and didn't like the idea of pressing through this enormous and a dooring crowd which would pluck at his clothes and so - the may tra desaid we can get to the room where the press will be by

going through the kitchen. short cut. and senator kennedy said fine, let's do that. that's where we were and sir han was there. i don't suppose anybody stopped him or asked for an i.d. or anything. >> where was he from? >> where? i think syria. he was a palestinian. i don't know where - he lived in california for a while. >> where is he today? >> in san quentin for life. >> at that time do you remember how old he was? >> late 20's early 30's? >> let's run this clip of the announcement. >> senator robert francis kennedy died at 1:44 am today, june 6th, 1968.

with senator kennedy, at the time of his death where his wife, e they wthethel, sisters. patricia law ford and brother-in-law mr. stephen smith, sister in law mrs. john f. kennedy. he was 42 years old. >> what else do you remember about that particular moment, circumstances? >> well, i remember that i left out a list of people that were with him. his brother senator edward kennedy and we made that correction shortly there after. i don't remember a lot about my own feelings bus there was so much going on that had to be

done. i had a lot of duties take care of. maybe 100 reporters who were on the scene i had to get them information and make travel arrangements and make them public. gary sal in gear at that time was helping out here and there. we started making lists of people to be invited to the funeral, how we were going to handle the press at the funeral, where it was going to be. there was a lot to be done. as i say i think that was a bit of a blessing so i didn't have to think very much about grief. >> when did it hit you? >> couple of days later. back here in washington. >> is there any way to describe the impact it's had on you for the rest of your life? >> not yet. >> when you were rattling off some of the names, it just so happens in this particular time period a lot of people are

passing on including you this driver and his or her husband had alzheimer. >> he was with sergeant driver, ambassador to paris. >> let me stop there. can you communicate with him anymore. >> i saw that picture too. very sad. sarge was a wonderful, vibrant and vigorous and tough,ing ative guy. well into his 60's, 70's. now as you say, he's afflicted as well-known with alzheimer disease. he seems, the pick s picture i l he looked very old. >> he ran the peace corp. did you know him? >> very well. >> after senator mcgovern

choice him and because of problems he backed out or left and sergeant shiver was picked was that your choice? >> well we went through a lot of names and people were unwilling to run. and i think it was a real turning point of the campaign. he might not have won that election but certainly would have come close. we were five, six points behind and i think we had some good. we had watergate going for us. >> but lost by almost 25? >> oh, yeah lost to a significant point to where senator mcgovern, to if he would have, been close, been the candidate years later. >> today taking this, donahue it died. did you know him. >> yes as producer of cbs. in fact, he gave me cause for

considerable light-hearted to be sure, embarrassment in the kennedy campaign. don called me up - i guess early in 1967. ron all right.ed reagan was elected governor of california and said cbs has this new thing calls satellite and we can bring into the same broadcast people from different parts of the world talking to each other and he said well, i want to do, have a debate between senator kennedy and ronald reagan the new governor of california and maybe have students from england, japan, india talk to these two guys and ask them questions and have a debate. what do you think? what i thought was a perfect set from senator kennedy. he was after all, a pretty

experienced politician as governor of california. exclass pse&b movie star and th accepted and they had the debate and it was carnage. no one has ever won more decisively than reagan did that evening. senator kennedy looked at the monitor in the room rather than at the interviewer and result is that the people watching saw him being kind of shifty eyed. he went along to a great length with answers trying to be precise where as ronald reagan was superb. gave wonderful reassuring pro-american answers. and for the viewers after that, whenever we'd have a discussion in the kennedy staff or the kennedy surroundings and i would

take a position i would look at senator kennedy didn't hold, he would turn to me and say, you're the one that put me in the debate with ronald reagan, aren't you? >> i first heard that story from something you wrote in the march ninth, 2006 "washington post" with, a friend whom it's a pleasure to disagree a former aide to ronald reagan. you said until his death, unlike as it may seem were good friends off and on for 50 years. >> about right. i was running for the legislature in california. >> how much of the friendship between all parties exists today that we don't know about? >> i would think much less than it did 30 and 40 years ago or

even in the case of h lynn mayb 30, 50 years ago. >> where did you meet him? >> probably the political campaign. probably involved with someone on the other side. he first of all is one of the rare conservatives i've ever known to have a good sense of humor, and so we had a lot of fun together. we could put aside our eat logical differences. doesn't seem to be a lot anymore. >> i'm not sure you wrote about it, but well-known that he used to wear his mickey mouse tie. never tied it up. there's no other way to ask this question. your 85 years old. >> i am. >> your vigorous and up and about and go to work every day? >> do work river day.

i've technically retired but i keep the office and phone and the computer and i'm writing book and doing a little work here and there. >> what are you writing book about? >> well i suppose a member our. >> why have you waited this long? >> well there's never been time but now i have the time to do it. >> seems like your almost first here. when i read cronkite i wanted to say how many other stories do you have left in you but your 85, and people, don was what? 90. 88. walter cronkite was 92. shiver was 88. how do you do it rev day. how do you look at life at this stage? >> pretty much the way i did 20 or 30 years ago.

things to be done. i have a wonderful wife and we have a lot to talk about and a lot to remember. a lot of good friends. i've written four books and one i wrote is working with me now on the me mormomemoir. we wrote a good book ability television called remote control about how television. think was in the 70's about how television was influencing our lives. not just news but entertainment television. >> is it still? >> i think so. >> in what way? >> well, i think of course the difference between television in the 70's and now is of course cable. which you know something about. it's this c in c-span.

it's created constant rotating news cycles that make a big difference in politics in the way in which we look at our public life. we use todd reed the morning newspaper or watch the evening news and that was it. now there's things going on every ten minutes that have to be dealt with and answered and discussed and truth is always seems to be drifting further and further out of the discussion. people are getting angrier and angrier. >> are you getting angrier? >> maybe. but i don't watch all the cable stuff during the day. >> what do you watch? >> what's your habits every day? >> well i wake up to a wonderful radio program on national public radio program of which i was president for 7

years in fact. and then i don't know, i don't really take in much entertainment or - i mean i watch the screen for e-mail and things like that. i heard about don's death today because somebody sent me an e-mail telling me about it. >> when you were running national public radio back in 1980 did you get involved in the ted kennedy campaign at all? >> only in covering it. you know? >> but did you encourage him to run or have a relationship with him? >> i probably did but only prif rally. i didn't have a real role in his campaign. i know a lot of people that did and i probably gave them advice which they took or not. >> why did they roast you in 2004? >> well, that had to do with a fund that was being raised in my name to set up a scholarship at

colombia journalism school and somebody thought it would be a good idea to get people to coming to and pay a few hundred dollars and put night scholarship fund and it's been quite successful. there's been a scholar every year since. >> people that notice you here on the stage but here's ted kennedy talking about you in 2004. >> i owe frank a rot lot. i wouldn't have run if he had been president of the,nta are in 1970's. he needled me year after year. haha ted. he loved to say i got to be president before you did. how could i possibly go wrong? with all of frank's wise advice, great judgement and hands on experience in politics he kept saying, you can do it ted.

you can't miss. piece of cake. look at the poles. it's your year so i took the plunge in 1980 and rest is history. >> what's he like? >> oh, he is a very likeable engaging man and i think - um... publically, i think he's the best senator of the 20th century and with only nine years gone already the best senator of the 2 century. he is a man of enormous leadership capability and devotion to really good causes. >> have you talked to him during this period of his brain cancer? >> only very briefly. >> and um... you know with all the sh the, bob another figure died of brain cancer yesterday.

this st seems to be a huge peri of people passing on. >> it does. all the big names of the 60's and 70's and 80's. >> what's your legacy of your own perspective of that era? >> it's hard to say. but you know, part of the legacy i think is of - i hate to say terms like good fellowship or compatibility but it's true that we all got along a lot better and maybe things move a little more easily as a result. bob novac and i, i don't think ever agreed on anything but we talked frequently about all kinds of things. college basketball and some of the more abstract labor and foreign policy issues but always on the basis of what was

interesting and a musing rather than what was right or wrong. when it came to that, we didn't see eye-to-eye at all and that's fair thing that went along with a lot of people. >> your father was herman and he did what for a living? >> he was a screenwriter. i would not have known that but - just from watching i would have thought he was a political columnist but he did in fact was a screen write frer 30-years. >> his most famous movie? >> yeah. citizen cane which many people say is the best movie made. >> the story of what? >> well a story about a newspaper publisher that was a young, tough crusading, radical young man that became a kind of crusty conservative in his old age. and the story of his

relationship to other people, his friends, his girlfriend. >> where did your father get the idea? >> people thought there was a parallel to the life of william randolph hearth and i suppose there was some. he new herst and studied his life. he was a radical democratic congressman from new york. he became sort of one of the extreme idols of the extreme right as a publisher. >> you have two sons. what are they doing? >> well, they're in the business. josh is correspondent for nbc program called date line. been there a number of years. respected reporter and correspondent and ben is much younger, has i think maybe the best job in america. he's the weekend host of turner classic movies.

can't do much better than that. no down side. >> wasn't he one of the young ones on young american for a while? >> may do that again. >> where's all this come from in your family? >> i don't know. maybe something from my father was among other things the first drama critic of the new yorker magazine. reporter in europe for a while. worked for the new york world, always known as old new york world. i knew all these people. that crowd. he was a member of the roundtable crowd so. maybe it came from him. maybe from his father who was a professor of german literature. i don't know. >> here's a little more from ted kennedy at that roast. >> what a great two years they

had together. i love to watch it a marriage made in heaven. bobby relied heavily on frank's excellent advice and extraordinary their press skills but my brother loves the great good company and brilliant, laugh your head off sense of humor. once bobby brought his newborn son to the senate office. he was just a tiny baby. bobby showed him off, introduced him to the whole office. at the time, frank had just become a father again too. his son ben had been born a few weeks earlier so bobby went over to frank's desk held up the baby and said frank, say hello to dougy, he's just finished reading, camu. frank laughed and without missing a beat he said, senator that's fabulous. you and dougy have to meet

bench. he's just finished reading complete works of shakespeare. and he continued and next week he's going to read it all again right side up. >> you know that remind please of - i think in reading part of the speech that bobby kennedy gave in indianapolis after the death of martin luther king was it there he quoted, escalas? at one point you talked about writing speech on the way to the place in there but he ended up off the cuff. >> i wasn't writing speech but i was writing ideas for a speech but we never got it to because the police in indianapolis abandoned our motorcade when it got in the less prosperous part of town?

>> just left you? >> yeah. >> why? >> the press bus where i was got to the speech after robert kennedy started speak. that speech was right off the top of his head with no notes but he knew the greek potatoeses and carried a book called the greek way and he really did read a lot of interesting literature. one of the few, robert kennedy and i think ted kennedy as well, among the very few politicians i've known who keep on learning. i mean most of us bank our intelligence capital and maybe in our mid 20's and then live off the interest for the rest of our lives but kennedy's kept right on learning. >> don't you keep on learning? >> yeah, i try. i try. >> what technique do you use? >> reading books and newspaper

and references to books and so i go after them and i talk to a lot of people. i have a good memory. but um... i think many of us just take what we have and live off that. >> as your writing this members of the jomemoir, are you talking off the top of your head or have you kept note? >> i kept regularly with joel who would bring a tape recorder to a regular breakfast we'd have, and ask me questions about different parts of my life and tape it all and then read the transcripts and i've got those and it's quite a library to look at now. >> so you want to just give us a hint on one story you're telling that we'll read about next year? >> well i'm trying think of

what one might be. some of them are profane. probably not fit for widespread circulation. >> but you're going to put them in the book. >> they'll be this the book. >> when will it be published? >> i have no idea. >> expect it next year? >> maybe late next year. yeah. >> here's senator mcgovern talking about you. >> one of the strange things that happened in that campaign is some member of the press ventured to the opinion that i was just too nice a guy to be president of the united states. how could such a gentle and descent soul hold up in the rough and tumble of presidential politics. i mention this to frank and he said why don't you tell them you have a few virtues but the list

of sins is much longer. so i tried that and the press said, well what are some of those sins? i said well i refer you to frank, who's been compileing a list. so frank said to them, well what i told you is true. he does have a lot of sins, but that's classified information. so until judgement day - that was frank's only mistakes in the campaign because the voters who had figured out that i was not bad enough, to be president, found their answer in richard nixon. [applause] >> so in your publish meant going to tell us sins of jorge mcgovern? >> i don't think so. but i'll talk a lot about richard nixon.

>> what did you think of him? >> i'll tell you one story that's observable on the tapes the white house tapes nixon made, when - in this campaign in the mcgovern campaign in 1972, when george wallace was shot, middle of may, 1972 in maryland and for some reason - i guess people were capturing assassin or would be assassin on the spot and nixon heard from the fbi or from someone where he lived. he had an apartment in maybe milwaukee - i think that's right. in any event. nixon then called chuck coalson and this is on tape and asked him, told him to hurry up and get out to this guy's apartment in milwaukee before the fbi

surrounded it and took over and plant mcgovern literature. i - that's president of the united states. [laughs] i think that's all you need to know. >> you come across as a mild mannered individual. you ever get really angry? >> i do from time-to-time, yeah. >> what angers you most in politics? >> i'm increasingly, um... angered by the passiveness of the media. they seem so anxious to preserve the notion that there are two sides and they're contesting always. television loves controversy. preferable violently. because it brings in audience. um... and the result is that you can tell the most outrageous lies and it'll all be treated as

ordinary conversation. i mean in this debate over healthcare reform or global warming. whatever it is. there are some just absolute false statements being made which the media know are false and yet, they'll site them as propositions that then have to be answered by the other side and of course between people scream and yell at a public minute, they tend to get on cam rand a then somebody says, well that's not entirely true and a controversy here or there, but the media has yet to say, senator so and so lied today when he said,x,y ors. that gets me angry. >> when we started talking about the cronkite column. will there ever be anybody as big and they'll have a big

memorial in lincoln center and the president will speak, is that ever going to happen again? anybody going to be that big? >> someone have that stature? i think not. >> should they? >> maybe not. maybe not. but the reverse ought not to be true either, that there be 50 or 100 sharks circling each with it's own sound bite. somewhere we have to find the medium and i'm not sure we're going to. >> frank, thanks we're out of time. we look forward to pure publishings. >> thank you brian, i enjoyed it. ♪ captioning institute ---www.ncicap.org--- [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> for a dvd copy call 1-877 7

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